CargoFish: A Physical Internet Utility to... "Move Only What Matters!" by The School of Motion

Interesting idea. Could it be cheaper to implement with drones?

Hello Robert, It is a great idea. I am going through your ideas, and will write in detail shortly. Stay tuned. Best Mohazzam

Robert I see this idea as a scaled up version of valet service where what people want is "delivered" in a way that uses less energy/resources and is therefore more cost effective than paying someone else or even doing it yourself. The concept is no different that hiring a dog walker, since it would employ others to do something that a person either cannot do themselves or just don't have the time for. A dozen suggestions to help kickstart your plan: 1. Perhaps some large seccessful Corp.'s like Amazon, FedEx and/or BYD would want to be a Sponsor, since they would want to offer this service to their customers globally. 2. Since you are using human power, I think you should also tout the health benefits of employing this type of service since those that do the "work" will be also doing exercise which will improve their health. Seniors tend to have lots of time, and earning money money by providing this service would be a win-win for everyone. 3. Include the use of electric bicycles and other electric modes of transportation, since they would enable deliveries to far greater distances in much shorter times, since modern eBicycles can easily do 30 mph and cruise through traffic congestion, as the famous NY bicycle messengers have proven long ago. 4. Add the creation of local HUBS, so that your couriers can not only deliver items in both directions but "handoff" items to others in order to not have to duplicate the same travel as another courier going the same place. 5. "Delivery boys" used to deliver groceries on bicycles which had large baskets on them and that image might be a great logo that people would identify with. 6. Identify an initial testing situation/location so that everyone can better understand how your idea can be put into practice. This could be food delivery in a urban setting where people don't want to lose their parking place or even in a senior neighborhood where people don't want to deal with doing their own errands, possibly due of physical limitations. 7. Be prepared for many businesses to sponsor your service since it would mean they could provide for more customers without having to physically deal with them, which would save them from having to fund larger operations, because they could offer "deliver Only" pricing. 8. Those that do the delivering, will also earn tips to help increase what they make per hour. 9. Once someone uses this service, they will not only use it again for additional services, but they will tell their friends, which will help expand the user base rapidly. 10. Every delivery will have a "minus" carbon credit assigned to it ad depending upon the locality, those credits may provide the ongoing money needed to not only "run" the service but keep expanding it 11. Once established, the same website that offers deliveries can also target services and offer "special" deals since they will be able to match up potential new customers with ongoing deliveries to customers at nearby addresses. This would dramatically increase the cost effectiveness of the entire operation. 12. It is human nature that people like to be waited upon and this service would provide that human interaction that many, not just those housebound, would employ because it would offer something that is missing in our fast paced society which is person to person interaction.

captd: Thanks for volunteering to joing the proposal and welcome! There is a lot to fill you in on, as I have been developing this opportunity for just over four years now, have invested no less than four thousand hours of research and development, and have drawn from decades of experience in nuclear submarine and commercial power operations, as well as many related hobbies and interests. I'll answer your comments, numbered: 1. I have been turned down and/or ignore by every entity under the sun... except for The Physical Internet Initiative, and several hundred indiduals I have pitched to face to face, many of whom are friends and family. 2. The power source is electricity. It uses so little that there are options other than grid power, but that is a separate problem. Most power considerations beyond grid power are really most important for reliability, but some as well for marketing, and some for both. What I mean is... a "bicycle generator" operated by the average person could easily propel fifty fully loaded vehicles at thirty mile per hour each. 3. So... the use of vehicles that carry people is planned for a later stage of implementation of this technology. It is best if this capillary, parcel only network is in place first. 4. I have some very interesting ideas about how best to accomplish many aspects of operations. These plans go far beyond what has been built so far on only a few thousand dollars. A little outside support will change all that. 5. Again, persons will not be necessary for these deliveries. No different than electricity, water, natural gas, etc. 6. From last week's conference, I have been requested to compose two white papers and a business plan, for two proposed projects and to garner support from a large philanthropic entity. These will take a few more days to complete, and no outcome is guaranteed. I would very much like to make some progress here, with or without other support. 7. This new utility will change retail of fast moving consumer goods in a big way. 8. No delivery crews... but there will be an operating and maintenance team. 9. People will prefer this service to driving their car every time they run out of... whatever. I agree. 10. Operation of this system, at two Watt-hours per vehicle mile, vs. three hundred Watt-hours per vehicle mile for a typical electric car, represents about two orders of magnitude energy savings. Of course... if several bags of groceries are being retrieved, then several of these little autonomous vehicles will need to run, and the savings will only be one order of magnitude. But... that is still 90% less energy intensive. 11. Oh, yes... a household will likely schedule a certain set of deliveries, with active exceptions to add to or delete from the next delivered order. It really does open up some interesting possibilities, doesn't it? 12. Well, this utility is much like the phone. I prefer seeing people, but when I need to talk to them and I cannot visit, it is good to have the phone option. So thanks again for supporting, commenting, and joining. You can find more information at www.cargofish.com. In fact... there is a contest still running... a residual from a Shark Tank audition I did earlier this month, that will be determined by popular vote. Perhaps you could cast a vote? It allows one vote per day, but there are only three days left. This link to it is easy to find at www.cargofish.com -Robert DeDomenico

This compares well. It is about on par with freight railroads in the US, which average about 325 BTU per ton-mile. Of course... this enables movements on a micro scale. CargoFish does better on energy efficiency that USPS, Fedex, UPS, and/or courier services on energy for two reasons. First... the delivery vehicle averages about 50% load capacity at best, and this only when it begins a delivery route completely full. It of course returns completely empty, and I haven't analysed to the nth degree, but 50% full is not a low ball assumption, knowing what we know. Now... the delivery vehicle must move a along a route that adds up to many more ton miles of just cargo, than spliting up the parcels and sending each only to its destination. Next... the delivery truck is rolling on rubber tires, which have a comparitively high coefficient of rolling resistance vs what CargoFish is using. And of course... with an instant delivery utility you won't have to wait a day for your order. You will have it within minutes, for common items, and gradually longer depending how exotic the item is. Give it a chance to sink in a bit... I've been at it for several years and gave it a great deal of thought and analysis myself. Thanks for reading and commenting. If I haven't answered you fully, please let me know. Robert

Robert, I have to come at this from a practical business and cost stand point. It seems to me that the cost to implement would be tremendous. Have you considered the cost of fabrication, construction, liability, operation, maintenance and so on? Who owns the system? How does it make money? It it's owned by the taxpayer and the federal government is responsible for implementation then figure the cost to be quadrupled.

Hi Robert - Thanks for your message. I noticed you put this idea forward last year and the response was rather meagre to say the least. The response surprised me because I look at our transport system today - moving 1.5 ton objects around just to pick up some groceries, or to transport oneself - and it makes me realise that we really aren’t as smart as we like to make ourselves believe. Cars... palm to forehead! You were right to compare it to the semi-finalist winner last year “Solar Serpent”. I saw nothing original about this idea. However, it was politically feasible, and I think feasibility plays a big role when Climate CoLab choose the winners. The government loan-guarantees being given away for solar projects reduces risk at no extra expense to the developers, so there is more chance of getting funding for solar projects than a physical internet. I think you’ve received some brilliant advice from some of the commenters above, and considering how long you’ve been thinking about a Physical Internet, anything I give would probably be clutching at straws, but here goes anyway: How about approaching a large supermarket in a residential district, and ask them to help with funding a “Physical LAN” Yep! Connect the supermarket to every house in it’s vicinity. It would guarantee dominant market share. (You’ll probably get the competition ombudsman knocking at your door.) If it would prove profitable for one supermarket, then... Just a thought.

Dario, Gracie! I have been studying the area we spoke of, via Google maps. I will be in touch soon by email for what information cannot be gleaned from online, and with that can finish the paper. I am all ahead full! Thanks again, Robert

A Great proposal, leveraging the power of the internet of things

Why build this transportation system for various goods, when we could improve our transportation systems for people? I don't always know what I want or need when I go out to a store- I find it easier to browse for a specific item in a store, rather than over the internet. I also enjoy it. I think that you are right in identifying the pointlessness of driving a 4000lb car in exchange for receiving 10lbs of groceries. However, I think the focus should be more on a 4000lb car carrying one person verses eight... etc. Regardless of whether or not people will want this service, people will still need to transport themselves from a to b. I think that it would be more efficient to use this money to improve public transportation rather than the shipping/logistics industry.

Hello Mr57, Why insist on using a 4,000 lb vehicle even when you know you will often only be bringing home a 2 lb item? How could you possibly ever improve upon a system designed to move 200 lb people, so that it is also the optimum for moving a 1 oz prescription? How can you deal with individual needs for simple and small items effectively, if you insist that the only way to approach the problem is to see how to mass them all up into piles and transport the big pile? Why don't we just get rid of all cars and use busses? Sure, people will still need to transport themselves. We used to make routine trips to the well or river, to retrieve our water. We simply open up the tap now. But has that meant that we are no longer free to roam around? I think the big picture of the proposal is pretty clear by now. Imagine how hard it would be to convey all of the technical specifics of how exactly to implement it? How many people know those details of every piece of modern magic that they use? I thank you for your comments, and giving me the oppportunity to address them. If there is anything that I have still failed to address, don't hesitate to say so. Sincerely, Robert

Thanks, Galen. Do you mind offering just what it is specifically that you don't understand? Perhaps it was in the parts of the proposal you decided not to read. I can tell you which part, that way you won't have to waste your time reading more than you really want to. All the best, Robert

I love the practical notion of rationalising at the global scale, however, please let me be a little idealistic in my response. Something to bear in mind is the fact that efficient (e.g. cheaper) mobility can soon encourage suboptimal growth patterns if prioritised. E.g. efficient new cars + roads soon create habitual commuters. High-speed links can turn distant villages into large towns/megaxities. We tend to design cities for mobilities when they should/could be designed for accessibilities. In short, your logistical reasoning is good, but perhaps it could be factored into more optimal patterns of urban diversity?

Hi Robert, Sailors from Seattle here. I've asked my VP to review and reply to you. For one thing, he has his degree in Engineering Physics from Case Western. His direct email is frank.calma@gmail.com. Please keep us updated; your vision is fascinating and we'd love to be a beta tester. Kathy President and Cofounder Salish Sea Trading Cooperative www.salishseatrading.coop Working in harmony with Nature's gifts of wind and tide, transporting local goods

Kathy, Thank you so much for saying so. I enjoyed the Seattle area greatly when my submarine was in refueling overhaul, 1988 to 1980. I used to hang glide at Cape Kiwanda, Orgegon, and Dog Mountain, Washington. You live in a beautiful part of the country. I will send an email right away. Thanks again, Robert DeDomenico

Robert, An interesting energy-audit approach. My concern is the potential negative impact on socialization as an unintended consequence and how that could be exacerbated by targeted marketing. I don't think that derails the idea, but you might address it. How would you implement your plan so that it enhanced the viability of urban neighborhoods? And how would you serve rural areas served equitably -- or would you not? If not, what incentives follow, and how are people likely to follow those incentives?

Hi Brian, Thanks for reading and commenting. I agree that there will be social changes as a result of this innovation, and I cannot say with certainty what all they will be. But I know that some of them will be very good, and I'm sure that some will be less than desirable. I'll work an answer to your question into a proposal revision soon, instead of trying to tackle it here. I will say, in answer to your question about how will rural areas be affected... has containerized freight changed you life? It has mine. Even though no container has ever been delivered to my door. Rural areas will go from low availability of goods, to not as low. City areas will go from high availability, to very high. The improvements in distribution will be in proportion to how thorough the distribution already is. I hope that answers at least some of your query. Thanks again for asking. -Robert

Hi Michael, Thanks for reading and commenting. The delivery of milk was changed circa 1944 by Carl Lindner, Jr., of Ohio. His family started United Dairy Farmers, and the chain still has about 200 stores. At that time, four quarts of milk delivered was 58 cents. He introduced "cash and carry" bottled milk from his dairy, open seven days a week from 7 am to 9 pm. He also introduced the gallon and half gallon package. One gallon was 29 cents. Two milkmen accosted Mr. Lindner at closing, the first day of his new business, but he prevailed. There are some shared box models going on in Europe. These are like those lockers that used to take a quarter to release the key. Now with electronics, a delivery person (or system), could put your parcel into the next available box, then send you notice of which box and crypto-key to open it, via email or smart phone. Receiving boxes could be insulated, heated, refridgerated, or frozen. I am looking forward to completing development of the entire concept, and there is a lot of potential. Thanks again, -Robert

Joe, Thanks for reading and commenting. I think you are spot on about all of the hurdles remaining. On social acceptance... its ease of use, energy efficiency, and low cost should carry the day. On right of way... all fifty states in the US have laws on the books that allow public utilities to share the right of way of all roads. This is what allows the private telephone and cable companies to run their networks. Many natural gas companies are private, too. About serving everyone at home... of all 115 million households right now in the US, only 99% are on the electric grid, 85% on municipal water, 75% on community sewer, and about 60% have natural gas. CargoFish Physical Internet will work in areas having the population density to support it. Rural areas will find that the local general store on the network, will be almost the only place they need to shop at, because it will be able to provide a variety of hundreds of thousands of everyday and/or exotic items, on very short notice compared to any means in service today. I love it, I don't mind saying so, and I can give you every reason to love it, too! Thanks for your comments! Robert DeDomenico

Thanks for drawing my attention to the concept. I would like to see the energy usage be committed to carbon negative biofuels. Also, using HDPE culverts as pneumatic/vacuum tube transport arteries is an idea I've played with for some time. There are a number of old railroad right of ways which have been turned over local governments as a way to maintain the land rights for future use. Running HDPE culverts under/on/above these legacy railroad lands needs to be explored. Best regards,

Hi Michael, Thanks for responding, and supporting! I should explain though, that this technology is not at all pneumatic, due to several characteristic drawbacks of trying to employ pneumatics on such a scale of distance and network complexity. There are many network pneumatic tube systems, such as the 2,000 or so Swisslog Translogic systems in hospitals across North America, with another 600 hospitals operating Pevco systems. There are, and have been, many other installations, including pneumatic post systems in London, Philadlphia, Boston, St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Paris, and many other cities throughout Germany, Italy, and Austria. Several of these had remained in service to dates such as 1952, 1972, and 2002. While there are good reasons that all have been retired... none of those reasons hold against the new technology I have developed. I should be in a position to provide more details in the proposal in the coming weeks. Thanks again, Robert

Mike Brodzik, and family, are neighbors and friends to my family. He has seen the years of testing and development unfold on the roads of our little neighborhood. He has heard, though he never said so out loud, all about the project certainly more times than anybody should have to. Often times while driving home, I would see Mike walking the dog. Then, completely oblivious to the fact that Mike was already engaged in conversation on his iPhone, probably for work, I would rush into the garage and grab the latest incarnation of the vehicle or track, and run out to show him. Mike... more than thanks for your support... thanks for putting up with me and my incessant project. It is no wonder at all that you are a leader in education, where it matters most how you treat people.

I can't find a description of the technology that will be used. I understand the propulsion will be by electricity, but will the vehicles have wheels or is it maglev? What kind of control system will be used? Central control or distributed? What are the speeds? What is the capacity? If it is too expensive in this country to bury electrical cables, in spite of the high costs for blackouts, why would people want to pay for buried pipes? What will the load profile be able to handle? Up to shopping bag size? How about odd shapes? For this to become more than an idea the description has to be more detailed and technical. And it is completely unnecessary to waste space on listing who have turned the project down.

Hi Per, I did not get too descriptive in the technology, true. That does not mean it is no more than an idea though. I was just taking the time to show the prototype to my first recruit into the technology department... an young engineer attending a local school. His name is Patrick. He got to see all the technical details, and a demonstration, and he loved them. Even though it is too expensive to bury every power cable, your country buries pipes already. Do you not have water, sewer, or natural gas? None of the customers will pay for these buried lines up front. They will pay for the service though, as they use it. It will be cheaper than using their cars, and more convenient, which is why they will pay for it. The load profile will be able to handle many more things than it cannot handle, and what it cannot handle, it won't handle. Do water pipes deliver orange juice? No. Does that mean they are useless? No. They are useful for what they are designed for, and that is enough. This is no different. If you see any value in the concept, you could follow some of the references and find at least some of the technical details you are wondering about. What you are really wondering though is if it will work. It works. Patrick could tell you that much now. As soon as the IP is secured... I will explain exactly how. I hope that I have addressed at least some of your concerns though. Thank for bringing them up, Robert

Hi Fliss, Thanks for reading, and asking questions. I cannot begin to tell you how closely I have examined the overhead telephone and power infrastructure... nor how many times! The NYC pneumatic post system was primarily underground, but actually spanned the Brooklyn Bridge! That was the most challenging part of the system, due to the greater range of temperatures. I like underground a lot for the temperature stability, as well as a bit of "security by obscurity"! When it must go above ground though... it will. Mind you though, it's actually just motor driven traction, not cable car. I went through the pros and cons of many different technologies and configurations. I've studied every conveyor belt system in the world longer than 5 miles! (Including the ~60 mile, 11 flight, phosphate conveyor in Buu Cra, Africa!) This I expect to dovetail in with existing methods of transport at first, but ultimately I see products coming right off the assembly line into this system, without having to case them up, then pallet up those cases, only to break down those pallets to make mixed pallets, then finally break down those pallets and cases to shelve the goods, where they are still of no real value to anybody because they are not home where they get used. I love that you like it! Thanks again for reading! It makes the work getting it this far feel worth it. Sincerely, Robert

Thank you for saying so, Jack! I have, and continue to, put a lot of work into this. Every little bit of help and/or support is greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Robert

Hello, I offered to comment in previous messages. Whilst I have not studied the details, I believe I get the gist. Using the CargoFish branding name was a very smart move. I think the name is good. My contribution, as a short first-impression reviewer, is to list a few things that I find appealing, and what sub-topics might be worth a strategic analysis. GOOD - firstly, if your technological ideas are very good, you may wish to find a commercial partner to develop a patent. The energy savings, it seems practical especially for densely populated urban areas and industrial zones. I would consider checking feasibility in a large building, such as a factory, industrial park, airport or supermarket. There are companies that deal with conveyers - as you're probably aware. GOOD - I suggest that you find a contact in Google, if they are still investing in driverless cars. I am not sure of the synergy, but they may have some software solutions for the navigation. If each unit was autonomous, then the Google software would be able to drive your units to/from destination points. Being guided, on tracks/tunnels, would be much easier that free-range driving, If your small vehicles could do both, then there is scope for some amazing transportation options. I think makes more sense than the diver-less car concept. MORE - To be honest , I did not read everything in detail. If you haven't covered these topics, have a think. Politics (?); Economics (ok); Physical (ok); Ethics (ok); Social (?). Perhaps consider the social implications - good/bad. I guess that people like the idea of driving to the shop because it gives them a few hours out of the house ....its not just about milk and bread. So think about what people can do with their extra time, extra saved money, and what will they do instead? BAD - Corporate retail and service providers like people in their shops so that can sell more. Perhaps you (invite me after the CoLab comp ends) could have a think about how retailer/services can enjoy customers in their shops and also save energy on transport... I don't have the answer for that just yet, but I think there is always a way... GOOD - Something about CargoFish feels right...at first it felt a bit oddball. Maybe just that its 20 years ahead of its time. Best regards Delton Chen

Sorry Delton, I answered several things, but really neglected the store model question. Here's how that will likely go... Stores will become less specialized, because any store on the network will see the minimum economical order quantity plumet, allowing them to make avaialable more variety, on shorter notice. So out in the country... the general store will return. There are so many ways that this affords change... it is almost daunting to think of them all. The key thing to keep in mind though, is that the superior economics, driven by the drastic reduction in wasted energy and human effort, will drive universal adoption. The rest of the cards will fall where they may, and who knows what ingenious ways will be thought of to leverage the new "physical internet". -Robert

Anyone who lives in a 'moderate snow' area (like Cincinnati) will understand what kind of LIFE CHANGING technology this could be. Here are 3 scenerios that either myself, or personal friends of mine, have seen as possible LIFE CHANGING situations if CargoFish was available today: 1. the white death is heading for cincinnati (OMG IT"S GOING TO SNOW). you order up (on line) your Emergency French Toast supplies (bread, milk, eggs). from the local (major retailer located 4 miles away), pay for it, and 20 minutes later, without having to get in your car and suffer the white death, a little robot, running on a network of rails, comes to your house, and presents you with the aforementioned Emergency French Toast supplies... everyone wins!!! 2. a local gardener, is growing eggplant. and has more eggplants ready for the taking than he can handle. you, getting ready to make dinner, find a wonderful recipe for eggplant and bacon sandwiches. you have the bacon. you don't have the eggplant. you can a) get in your car, drive to the store, and hope a lot, or b) you can get on the local 'farmers market' website, search for eggplants, see that someone about 4 miles from you has 5 of them ready to ship via CargoFish,,, you buy them, 20 minutes later, just in time (because now the bacon is ready), the eggplants show up, dinner is saved!!!! without having to fire up the jalopy! 3. (sent to me by a friend who is blind, without edits) Yeah, and this would solve a perpetual problem for blind folks who go shopping: 3) You ned something. Milk. Frozen chicken tenders. Mrs. Smith’s apple pie. Get it delivered, because, well, having it shipped from some online place would cost a fortune. And taking a walk to the grocery, or better yet, taking a taxi or bus, getting to the service desk, having someone assigned to help you who can barely read English, walk through the store with them, and hear the four most dreaded words in the English language: “We ain’t got that”. When in reality, the person assigned to be of assistance isn’t, can’t read labels, and can’t be bothered to use the eye God stuck in their head. Yeah, ya think I maybe have had this problem before? I for one, wish this was available TODAY. Thank you Robert! All the Best. /rick

Hi! Again, answer this question: "What is it?" as briefly as possible in the pitch and intro. Right now, that is still not clear. Again, do not ask a question, give an answer. That's all I can do now. best, G

Robert, I think this is a good thing you are trying to do for the world, and I hope it all works out well for you, too. Love, Mom

Hello Robert, You have a very interesting proposal generating a lot of comments. This concept will take a lot of getting used to therefore will generate a lot of comments so you need to continually make the concept clearer for more understanding and acceptance by the general public. I wish you the best this time. Arese

Awesome idea. Life is gonna be easy with this implemented. Time and Money will become available for more productive works. I wish you the very best of luck.

Thank you again, Sowmya, for your support and your comments. Yes, I have often thought that the actual best case use would be in US suburban areas, where nobody is close enough to any store to walk for anything. In a city, it might be competing with just walking to a nearby store, in which case that leg of the journey may not provide a return on investment for all of this installation. But... in the city I do like this for supplying all of those small stores! They would be able to provide you with a much wider selection of goods then. In the end, I just see so many ways that this offers to reduce car and truck traffic, while also providing greater convenience. I am certainly happy that you see some potential as well. Sincerely, Robert

Hi Tapesh, The delivery 'route' will be optimized by being made primarily of a product produced from ethane, and it will provide extreme energy savings for decades in this capacity, as opposed to separating out ethane only to burn it as fuel, which would actually be more consumption of energy instead of delivering any savings. The infrastructure will be created the same as several other standard utility infrastructures already are, with only minor differences in methods and cost, as alluded to in the proposal, expounded upon in several of the references, and essentially attested to by Patrick, the new engineer on the team. Buildings all over the world already undergo the expenses of being outfitted with plumbing and wiring, and serviced by water, sewer, gas and electric. Some of the earlier comments also have touched on this. The net savings of green house gas emissions considering complete life cycle are very easy for anybody to get an order of magnitude handle on, by simply considering how much extra fuel would have to be consumed if we were to suddenly stop using existing utilities such as municipal water and sewer, and instead drive and truck in all of the water that we consume every day in our homes, and also drive the waste away for disposal. The comparison to drones is already given in comment number two, above. Helicopter drones have no chance of being the future of small package delivery, for the reasons provided there. If anything has been left unanswered, don't hesitate to say so. I appreciate the time you took to read and comment, thanks! Robert

Hi Mike, Thanks for taking the time to read and comment, I appreciate it. I'll see what I can do about expanding the explanation on the pilot project. The difficulty with that is, there are so many, many places suitable for a pilot, and it costs money. So, the actual pilot will depend greatly on the will of the individual(s) putting up the money. I have done numerous comparative analysis with other utilities, their costs and customer per linear mile of network densities. It is as you said, attractive for use in high density urban areas, especially apartment buildings, and that may very well be the best place to start. As for the pitch... based on response received so far, I think I will leave the headlines of the proposal alone. The title itself actually explains a lot, and the questions are exactly what I want people to ponder. If anybody is so antagonistic as to not read further because of that, then there is little chance of convincing them of anything, regardless how true it is. Einstein himself once said, "Great spirits have always been violently opposed by mediocre minds." I'll see if I can work in the mansion analogy a little better. I don't want to lose it, because it is important to point out that the best strategy is to pick the low hanging fruit first. There are many schemes pushed around the world that claim to make sense and/or provide benefit, that actually do not. It takes too much work, more than many people have time for, to analyse well enough to uncover the truth. As a result, many things undeserving of public funds are nonetheless lavishly supported. Even if everything currently supported were deserving, it should be possible to arrange the priorities, and that sorting should put the most valuable efforts at the top. That is why I have invested so much of my own time, effot, and money. There is an initiative known as "The Physical Internet Intititive", that compliments well with CargoFish, (or vice versa), and has many good people working hard to make significant improvments. I will also see what opportunities I can sieze upon to tighten up the word count of the proposal overall. (I am a big fan of the brevity of the Gettysburg Address!) Thank you for the words of encouragement. With continued effort, and the emerging help of others coming on board, I believe the effort is withing months of going mainstream. Sincerely, Robert

Dear Angelica, Thank you for taking the time to read, for your vote of support, and for your question. My plan for the pilot implmentation, if it must be within my own personal means, is to build a portable system that I can set up and also take apart and set up elsewhere, for demonstration. So this type of pilot would not be underground, and would be for validation and any necessary development adjustments. The first pilot of an actually installed system for long term use will depend very much on the decision of the person(s) putting up the money. It could be a new suburban development in the US, so that those homewowners are not operating cars just to retrieve groceries, etc. It could be an industrial complex, for moving parts from the storeroom to the shops, etc. It could be in a city, to connect a few high rise apartment buildings to goods, etc. There are as many places for this to start as there were for cars themselves. I see it as universally applicable, just like the other utilities: water, sewer, gas, electric, telephone, and Internet. I will be taking the time to refine the proposal iteself over the coming weeks, just to make it more readable. Thanks again, Robert

Don, Thanks for looking it over! I am sure what intrigues you is the truth of the central theme. CargoFish's primary lever of advantage is simply matching the transportation system to the load. Using a car to move so many everrday items, is like using a tractor trailer to move a single barrel of oil at a time. The technical details of how best to accomplish this are really too much to get across in this proposal anyway, so if you have any questions, feel free to use the contact form from my website, www.cargofish.com. Sincerely, Robert

Dear sir, good idea. kind regards,

CargoFish's capillary gage system is intriguing and could be an energy efficient solution to car-dependent transport as long as the initial infrastructure development and maintenance has a low carbon impact. I imagine that in order for people to shift their behavior, a new system like CargoFish will need to be benefit the consumer through ease of use and fiscal savings.

Hi Tom, I didn't see your comment before replying to Meredith. What prevents a customer from placing a bomb in a mailbox now? Or in a sewer or storm drain? This system would actually offer ease of processing for screening of the incoming stream to any high risk target. This is already done with the US mail for many members of the federal government. The rest of us enjoy 'security by obscurity'. (Nobody is really gunning for us by name, because we are just another face in the crowd!) Good question, but no reason to reject this system over any system presently in service. Thanks! Robert

Oh, forgot about the thought that has also gone into the 'stations', which are essentially like appliances. When a person sends something over the Internet, unless sophisticated things are done to keep it anonymous, there are 'breadcrumbs' to follow. With CargoFish, each appliance made to accept a parcel for delivery, could easily employ computing to make the user enter credentials. This makes it much harder for a perpetrator to commit the crime. These and other security measures fall into the set of 'design options awaiting development'... a list that is not insignificant. If you still have any concerns that security could be a showstopper, don't hesitate to say so. Although I have tried to consider everything, something may have been missed. Thanks again, Robert

My proposal: Super Human Intelligent Transport will require no physical movement at all. using the power of our minds we will travel to stores browse items and materialize them in our desired location thus nullifying the need for this subteranean habitrail you propose. I have sucessflly used my technique to produce pizza's sub sandwiches and various electronic devices.

While I am a firm believer that ideas should be judged not by their advocates, but by their merit, I am also a realist. We all seek clues to determine the credibility of information presented to us. With that in mind, and partially in response to comment number 85 from the peon, I have assembled a partial list of CargoFish supporters. Included are only those supporters having something filled in for their MIT Climate Colab profile biography, minus a few very close friends, associates, and relatives. The profiles listed span a wide range of professions and experience, and among those omitted are many other interesting, notable, and everyday careers and experiences, all of whom I am proud to have supporting CargoFish. I did not point out how exactly I know any of them, and many of them I had not known. Partial list of CargoFish Physical Internet supporters: ------ Dan Whittet: Mr. Whittet has been a part of the high performance building field as a contractor, designer, developer and consultant on work across the United States for over three decades. He has worked in Southwest Colorado and Maine on photovoltaic off grid projects pioneering sustainable net zero systems in remote island and mountain locations. Notable recent LEED projects include Boston's iconic International Place towers, Las Vegas CityCenter, Boston Society of Architects and the Princeton Plasma Fusion Lab Lyman Spitzer building. As a contractor Dan pioneered sustainable practices in Maine and also served as President of the Mid Coast branch of the National Homebuilders Association and a member of the Rockport, Maine town building committee. In Colorado he was part of the team creating the first Green Building Code for San Miguel County and produced a documentary on the evolution of community in small towns. Currently active in the Massachusetts USGBC and Member of the ASHRAE SSPC 189.1, he is also a board member of the ADPSR, Architects, Designers and Planners for Social responsibility. He is the LEED project profile liaison between USGBC national and the Massachusetts chapter. With his wife, Maria Isabel Chacon, he follows the progress of the green building movement in Latin America and Urban Planning initiatives in the rapidly expanding populations there. Passionate about craft, quality of life and culture he writes and blogs about these subjects often and takes every opportunity to explore new ways to see, appreciate and encourage a better world. ------ Carlos Gershenson I am a full time researcher, leader of the Self-organizing Systems Lab, and head of the Computer Sciences Department of the Instituto de Investigaciones en Matemáticas Aplicadas y en Sistemas (IIMAS) of the Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM). I am also a researcher at the Centro de Ciencias de la Complejidad (C3) of the UNAM. I have a wide variety of academic interests, including self-organizing systems, complexity, artificial life, evolution, cognition, artificial societies, robotics, and philosophy. For more info, please visit http://turing.iimas.unam.mx/~cgg/ ------ Monika dos Santos I hold PhD in psychology and I am a senior lecturer in the Psychology Department at the University of South Africa. I am currently completing a second PhD in clinical psychology. On a personal level I have followed a vegan lifestyle for over 20 years. I hold an interest in how narcissistic traits in humans (be they conscious or unconsious) play out in adversly affecting our environments on a global level - and also how to activley deal with this problem in a tangible way, for example, through education and adaptation strategies, such as the provision of healthcare to affected vulnerable communities in Africa ------ Captain D You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows... Bob Dylan ------ Osero Shadrack Tengeya Am a Kenyatta University student pursuing my undergraduate studies in Environmental studies (Resource Conservation). ------ Alex Bracht Autodidact and Poliglot at the frontlines of the transformation ! ------ Michael Hayes Retired commercial fisherman with 4 years of independant studies concerning climate change mitigation ------ Helio Laubenheimer Helio Laubenheimer earned a Master’s Degree in Marine Science, Postgraduate Diploma in Environmental Science and MBA in Entrepreneurship and New Business Development. Currently based in Rio de Janeiro Brazil, he has been involved for over 6 years with emission reduction projects and sustainability related issues, including environmental restoration & planning activities in the mining sector. ------ Angélica Lara P.R. Natural specialist interested in Environmental Politics, Sustainable Development & Climate change ------ Delton Chen My personal and professional aim is to make a significant contribution to solving the U.S. and World Carbon Price problem. My solution is to develop an innovative global economic policy that can circumvent social and political deadlocks and trigger the economic transition to a low-carbon future. I have used a combination of intuitive thinking and rational problem solving methods to arrive at what I believe is the missing link of economic policy on climate change. My preferred career direction is to cultivate customer and stakeholder relationships through the provision of services and education for mitigating climate change. EDUCATION Ph.D. Dept. of Chemical Engineering (1992-2000). University of Queensland, Australia. B.Eng (Hons). Dept. of Civil Engineering (1985-89). University of Queensland, Australia. AFFILIATIONS Center for Regenerative Community Solutions, New Jersey, United States (non-profit) Economists for Peace and Security EXPERIENCE My expertise is in the analysis and modelling of physical processes and economic optimisation, mostly related to sub-surface water flow and related environmental interactions. Including: (i) Enhanced Geothermal Systems (EGS), (ii) open-pit and underground mine dewatering and water supply, (iii) regional water resources for agriculture and town supply, (iv) environmental impact assessments of mines, islands, wetlands, lakes, estuaries, rivers etc., (v) water flow in soil and vegetation, and (vi) coral reefs ------ Musyani Chewe I am Zambian, passionate about sustainable development and how I am interested in harnessing the collaborative effort of crowd-sourcing to help solve the most challenging issues and challenges within sustainable development ------ Tiron Laurentiu I'm a sport and nature lover because these 2 are the perfect match.I sometimes meditate to increase my awareness.I try to be a kind person and I prefer staying alone ------ Tyllor Parker I live in Michigan and enjoy the idea of contributing to the global discussion on the future of our society. ------ William Knauss After graduating from college (Sociology) I worked for about ten years in the tool and die industry in Detroit. After that I spent 25 years designing and building passive solar housing in the Southwest. In my old age most of my effort spent in in developing the distributed production of biochar in our homes.where we can use all of the excess heat that is produced for cooking, space heating and hot water. Throughout most of my life the issue has been how we could finance what needs to be done to be good stewards of creation, not the technology. Never has the financing issue been in such sharp focus as it now is with our man made climate issue now threatening our entire planet. ------ Natalie Rubio I am a student at the University of Colorado, Boulder pursuing a degree in Chemical & Biological Engineering and a minor in Business. I currently intern for New Harvest, a organization whose vision is to render factory farming obsolete through advances in science & technology. I believe eliminating intensive livestock farming is a immense and feasible step towards combating climate change, and I believe it is possible. I am currently spending the 2014 summer in Cork, Ireland to intern for Muufri, a biotechnology startup developing sustainable, animal-free dairy. ------ Sandy Zylka Sandy is a co-founder of NextAxiom and the co-inventor of NextAxiom's seven patent-pending innovations. She has managed all aspects of the hyperService Platform. To stay current with customer needs, and help drive product roadmap decisions, Sandy participates in projects and workshops with NextAxiom customers. Prior to NextAxiom, Sandy served as Product Manager for PeopleSoft's Optimization Applications. She led an elite team of PhD's responsible for delivering PeopleSoft's Advanced Supply Chain Planning and Optimization products. Prior to that, Sandy held positions as Principal Usability Architect and Senior Optimization Engineer for PeopleSoft. As Senior Supply Chain Consultant for Red Pepper Software, she led supply chain and integration workshops for companies such as Pepsi, Bausch & Lomb, HP, Analog Devices, and 3Com. Sandy holds a B.A. in Neurobiology from the University of California at Berkeley. She has completed studies and research toward an M.S. in Computer Simulations. ------ Helia Sohrabi Currently a Ph.D. candidate at Laval University (Quebec City/ Canada). My research is focused on sustainable distribution systems enabled by Physical Internet initiative. ------ Fliss Roberts Due to complete MBA specialising in Sustainability in the next 2 months, I am passionate about stakeholder engagement and fascinated by encouraging widespread behaviour changes to limit (and undo) our impact on this beautiful planet we are so lucky to steward. Currently working as a strategic partnerships intern for Terracycle New Zealand (a company committed to eliminating the idea of waste through recycling hard to recycle waste streams) I am also attempting to build a cob "Hobbit Holes" since live in the middle of the Waitakere Ranges and it feels rude not to. Moving towards a zero waste lifestyle I've started keeping chickens, goats, ducks and growing as much of my own food as possible. I believe that the way to change things is not to get bogged down by how seemingly large and wicked the problems are. Instead, do something. Whatever it might be that seems most relevant to you, personally, even if it seems so tiny as to be irrelevant. Who knows where that small action may end up leading you. Share your experiences...and watch the world change ------ Oculus Prime I am a sustainability professional ------ Leslie Whitcomb I am an educator and author, addressing issues of Effective Interpersonal Communication for Engineers, and designing educational structures that integrate Sensory based aspects of communication to support learning effectiveness. My husband is an MIT Alumni and taught Ocean Engineering at MIT from 1998 through 2000. He is currently department chair at the Naval Post Graduate Systems Engineering Department. ------ Richard Powell Born and raised in San Diego, California, Richard was married for 32 years to his high school sweetheart Judy. After enlisting in 1976, raising their two sons, Matthew and Aaron, at various naval installations around the country, Richard and Judy settled in the suburbs of Cincinnati after his retirement from the US Navy as a Chief Petty Officer in 1996. Richard enjoys all forms of auto racing, spending quiet time at his cabin in the woods outside Jackson, Ohio and playing with his granddaughter Kristine that his son Matthew graciously provided for his entertainment. Sadly Judy passed away in 2011. Richard has since moved to the outskirts of Atlanta to continue his pursuit of using technology to enhance the art of medicine, and married the former Holly Meyers, who showed Richard what his affliction is called; MAKER! ------ Justas Ingelevičius I’m architect, I’m keen on sustainable architecture, open source technologies, sharing culture. With young and energetic team we are developing open source 3D prototyping system “DiGiDone 3D” based on “Blender” 3D modeling software. I believe that tools for objects creation should be open source and available to everyone. Only with such open tools we can cultivate innovative ideas and built harmonious and sustainable environment. ------ Ambereen Alvi Avid researcher of environmental issues with specific focus on localization and bioremediation. I feel like education is free but is restricted by personal limitations of action. I have worked and volunteered for institutions like permaculture farms, the Forest Service and local city cooperatives with focus on sustainable development. ------ Pooran Rajanna Consulting Architect, Geek, Code for resilience finalist ------ Sowmya Akella I am an electrical engineer working in India. I co-founded a small company which provides solar power off-grid solutions. Climate and environment are a few topics I am really interested in and read a sizeable amount of articles on the internet. I strongly believe support and believe in the idea of Buddhist economics and of moderate consumption with a world economy run on reduced greed and increased contentment. This alone is enough in mitigating climate change. ------ Anton Chupilko Sustainability pioneer Russia, Russian Green Building pioneer (Rugbc Board member, Sochi Olympics official advisor for green building), leader IlikeGreen team, Member of the Board Russian Carbon Fund and Moscow President Club Board Member ------ Dan Didrick My name is Dan Didrick and I am the CEO of Didrick Medical Inc. I invented the X-Finger; the first functional prosthetic finger for partial and full finger amputees. ------ Anni Bricca non-profit founder ------ Patricia Hickman I am a 63 year old living in New Jersey. I have been in nuclear security for 27 years. i am married and have a daughter. ------ Ashely Daza Lehigh ChemE '15 undergrad. ------ aleksandra popova Student at Lehigh University. ------ Carl Bost Born: June 14, 1964 - New York City, NY Grew up in Imperial, Missouri Graduated Windsor High School - 1982 Attended Jefferson College - Two Year Certificate of Technology in Communications Electronics United States Navy Veteran - 1987-1993, Graduated Naval Nuclear Power School, Assigned to USS Archerfish (SSN-678) for 4-1/2 years Currently married with two teenage boys and living in Saint Louis, Missouri Work for AT&T (14 years) Currently training for 5th (official) marathon (Marine Corp Marathon, October 26 ------ James Clancy Manager working in Nuclear Power in numerous capacities. Graduated from Franklin & Marshall College and University of Southern California in Geological Sciences & Geochemistry. Live in Delaware and work at nearby Nuclear Power Plant ------

adding my support.

Hi Robert, Interesting concept and the comments you get proves that!! I just think it would be great value addition to your proposal if you add some clarity on: 1. The proposed technology you would recommend to use for transferring the materials / parcels. I have heard about pneumatic delivery / belt conveyors in industries. I guess home delivery would require much more sophisticated system and any description you add would be great! 2. The technology (software and hardware) to sort, select, communicate, transfer over complex concrete jungles we have now needs some explanation. The analogy of electricity and water is great, but in those case we know that the characteristics of the material we transfer is constant and can be controlled. For Cargofish, there is huge amount of variability (size, weight, temperature, state, fragile etc.) and I expect the technology to be more complex. 3. It would be really useful if you can estimate (i) cost of the technology you propose for installing Cargofish for a small community usage (ii) the amount of energy / carbon saved (iii) what would be payback - you know people would like to see some numbers to get things attractive!! 4. Social aspects - I guess people would generally like to feel the product before they take the decision to buy it - this is one of the challenge for online shopping - and it would take years to break this mind set!! All the best, Saravanan.

Hmmm. Studying. Studying. But not so clear. I sense your excitement but it is brewing just beyond hype. Looked at your website which had surprisingly little actual information. It would be great to see a drawing/sketch/ etc with materials, etc. After going to four different websites looking for info and watching your indiegogo video I am left without a clear picture. But let me tell you, underneath this confusion is a very cool idea. So please please bring it out.

Yes, I understand the problem. Clear as day. Solution, no. I don't see it at all. Are these google autonomous cars, drones, railways. I'm just seeing Rube Goldberg. And please don't PM to this CoLab system because it doesn't appear to be working.

Well you can load the images to your website and then link to them from the proposal's main page. Easy. And in your case a picture might be worth a million words, because in the second comment above, your post, even the idea of what a drone is gets confused. What is an enclosed network drone? is it flying in a tube. Is it not flying at all? Bring us up to speed please. Again I find the core of the idea exciting (an internet for physical goods) and I think that is great...not fully original (Amazon UPS etc)...but if you can change the game here with some novel design well then I'm very curious. Unfortunately even as an engineer I can't understand what you're really saying.

Eric, Question... Aren't you more or less holding me to a higher standard than the other proposals you are supporting? I have provided what information pubicly that I can, and offered to explain more privately. I have not seen or heard any reply from you though. Just wondering... Robert

Update: CargoFish Physical Internet responded to the US FHWA RFI DTFH6114RI00007, and I just received word that we are invited to give a presentation on the concept and technology at the Turner-Fairbank Highway Research Center in McLean, VA. This conference is being held concurrently both there, and at the Department of Transportation offices in San Francisco, CA. This is news that I know all of my family, friends, and supporters will be happy to hear.

I find the many updates of CargoFish proposal to have made it really better and competitive, so I wish it is submitted in time today, then - success in the competition!

Until when have we to keep fingers crossed for the success of CargoFish proposal?

Hi Antoaneta, Robert's account has been locked by the staff for having a discussion in one of the discussion threads, so cannot respond to any members via this comment board, the private message system, or discussion threads. It will be unlocked only if this proposal is advanced as a semi-finalist, and then only for the period allowed for updating the proposal. He has always found it difficult to back down from a debate. So if you need to converse before then, and don't mind using email but don't want to make yours public, he asks that you send him a message via the contact form on his web page, www.cargofish.com, or use the Colab PM system, as those are still being forwarded to his email. Hi Caro, Robert says thanks, and welcome to the team! As stated above, he should be able to converse via the Colab PM system during the upcoming proposal update period, provided CargoFish is advanced. Hi Marie, If you would like more information before the proposal update period you will have to use the instructions above, and Robert will be happy to provide more detail for you. He has turned our garage into an amateur machine shop, and the prototype he has assemble so far is really more than I can explain. Thanks, Elaine

You did not have to infer. The proposal explicitly stated that it was a track drone system. What you would have had to do to have advanced this proposal was to think, and learn. Transportation 'experts' that have no clue about the FACT that in the distribution of goods, less than half of the energy consumed is in the first 99% of the total ton-miles taken from point of production to point of consumption, and the rest on that last 1%. You are not competent to judge.

ooops - it posted my comment to another project.  Discard the previous post.

My comment here is - please keep me in the loop for vehicle design.  We have overlap with my project.  Whether air, land or sea, I want to deposit my two cents into the prototyping and manufacturing process.